ARTISTS TALKING

Hi Christina. I see what you mean about the staircase! Is there more to it? Do like the questions it poses as it is. Will think on it a little. Did you get my mail? Thanks for Tracey and your thoughts in general. Have not replied till now, thought you seemed to be in a good personal place for a while. Mail anytime if you have any more interesting thoughts about our drawing. Enjoy the savings tin.

posted on 2009-06-14 by Anthony Boswell

What a fantastic description of the centrality of just 'doing'. Isn't this, in the final analysis, why we are artists...?

posted on 2009-06-24 by Andrew Bryant

Hi Christina, I absolutely love the staircase - the perspective is brilliant! Thanks for your lovely comment on my blog. There was an excellent turn out for the show but now I know exactly what you mean when you say "life at the moment is a lot of just getting on with it"... I am beginning to regret saying I would create 250 of my ltd ed maps! haha.

posted on 2009-06-16 by Laura Ball

This is a really good review of Alex's show Christina. Have you thought about posting it on Interface? I see you have done a review there before and you write about art very well I think.

posted on 2009-06-24 by Andrew Bryant

Thanks. Yeah, have looked into it and it could be an option but I am reluctant because of the interest once you have finished the course. I'm trying to keep an open mind about my options though. Thanks for the comment. x

posted on 2009-05-29 by Christina Bryant

Have you looked into a career development loan...? (Sorry if this has already been mentioned and I have mised it...) On a slightly different note Christina, your commitment is obviously deep and driving, and this in itself is admirable.

posted on 2009-05-28 by Andrew Bryant

Christina, you'll find a way, I know you will. Nothing like necessity to sharpen the mind.

posted on 2009-05-27 by Nicola Kearey

Hi Christina, thanks for the comments, have answered a little more on my blog for you.

posted on 2009-05-25 by Anthony Boswell

Hi Christina, I started an MA last September and agree that there are heaps of positives about interaction, support, critical debate and discussion that help you to hone your practice and delve deeper into understanding what you are all about. I wish you every success in finding some funding, it's frustrating to sit here and read your dilemma and not to have the answers that might help you. There is a Merseyside focussed funding website http://mfip.org.uk which does have UK-wide information on too. They have a link to http://www.foylefoundation.org.uk who fund for arts, learning and health - you could have a look to see if anything sparks an idea? Don't give up hope either; not now doesn't also mean never. I have started my MA as a mature student having worked for years. It has been so refreshing to get my teeth into something that inspired me so many years ago but I had no money to follow it through then. Good luck!

posted on 2009-05-25 by Jeni McConnell

In balance I guess everybody needs to be in tune with their own way of working and if you know that the MA is the best way that you can challenge and advance your practice then that is great. Alternatives are viable though; they just require a lot of lateral thinking! Also, dare I be controversial and add... I know several people that took an MA because they had no idea what they wanted to do or where there work was going and wanted to put off responsibility a bit longer. This clearly isn’t what you are doing here Christina but seeing them stumble through MA and come out the side with little more direction and work that hadn’t advanced so much as continued in a similar vein made me feel frustrated that they had got on the course in the first place. Working alongside such peers would have irritated me, but perhaps I am looking at this from too narrow an angle. I took a look at your website Christina and you've got some great work on there, I hope things are going ok for you! J.

posted on 2009-05-24 by Jake Spicer

Emily, I think your balanced portrayal of the values of an MA epitomise an ideal of what practitioners should be able to get from such a course and I completely agree with the points you raise. I particularly agree that exhibiting work doesn’t necessarily give access to useful criticism; arguably it event inhibits it as the art viewing public often seem to feel that once a work has ‘made it’ into the gallery environment their options for criticism are limited to polarised opinions of like or dislike. The cheap and readily available facilities and networking opportunities seem to be a key reason for embarking on an MA (the qualification itself seems almost entirely superfluous in comparison). All of that said I have taken an alternative route to an MA myself and don’t regret the decision; the decision, coinciding with a move across the country lead to many months of failed projects, loss of direction and dwindling savings but with tenacity I found alternative ways of regaining control of my work and I feel it was better for me to have worked independently of the restrictions of an structured course taught at an established institution. My studio space, unsubsidised and bought with hard earned money felt initially isolated, with three moves to progressively larger studio before I was happy with the working space. I also had to find strive to find sources of creative evaluation; having sub-tenants in the studio, teaching life drawing classes (thus dragging a community of creators, and total strangers of all disciplines into the space) and getting myself out to every arts event possible all helped and now, a year on I finally have a network of people that provide roughly the same as a study group of peers. The best thing about it though is the greater variety that I get as a result of being outside of the ‘Fine art’ institution. Graphic designers, illustrators, art lecturers, students, writers, poets, actresses and dressmakers all stream through my studio every we

posted on 2009-05-23 by Jake Spicer

I ran out of words... I was going to say these negative were outweighed by the good.

posted on 2009-05-23 by Emily Speed

Andrew, I can't help but feel that your argument is a little simplistic, MAs can offer so much more than being critically ripped open - although that also depends on where you study and who your peers are! Christina, I suspect you are in a similar place to where I was before going to Wimbledon. So, some things I got out of the MA (and reasons why they are valuable): Time to make and develop work whilst being in a critical environment. Connecting with other artists and (in my case) leaving as part of a strong network of people who will continue to provide great links and create opportunities. Access to some really interesting professionals, both as tutors and visiting artists. Guidance in critical theory, which in turn means time to read (not to be underestimated!) and improve writing; this always feeds into your practice, the way you articulate ideas and gives your practice depth. Presenting work in crits is difficult, but it also means valuable feedback and getting the truth about what you are doing and how other people read it. Exhibiting or showing work otherwise does not allow the same experience as you inevitably get quite polite/shallow comments. It's hard to be honest with yourself sometimes! In my experience, if your work had integrity and was thought through, you didn't get ripped apart - I only saw that happen when people couldn't explain what they were doing. There are also the added benefits of facilities that cost lots elsewehere, equipment, learning new skills such as editing or casting and SPACE. Also, interim shows, degree shows, free or very cheap seminars and conferences, a year or two when you will see more art and events than you ever thought possible and when you will also figure out what kind of artist you are and how you can go about making that happen. There may be more reasons, I will let you know. There are always downsides; it's expensive, bloody hard work and there are always politics and weak points about institutions, but for me

posted on 2009-05-23 by Emily Speed

Lack of funding means things are much harder, my work will be more compromised and emotionally, like any rejection, it makes me question my own worth as an artist. I would love to say I have so much self belief that I take every knock back on the chin, shrug 'hey ho' and move on to the next. But I seem to put so much of me into this path that every knock back hurts fiercely. If it didn't though I don't think I would care enough to carry on. The knock backs are only a very small part of a bigger picture though and some how things continue, almost with a strange will of their own. In response to the idea of getting the critical feedback outside the MA. I think yes, of course you can get it but, its the value of the source of the feedback that is so important. It's having a concentration of minds that have a commitment to debating and challenging that area I have a particular interest in. Being out of that environment for a few years make you realise it can be very difficult to get the constructive, critical feedback that has real value to your progress. It seems to be a lot of either... 'I love your work.' or 'Sorry but your work is not suitable'. Both as unhelpful as each other, very few people actually want to seriously discuss it or aren't informed enough on the subject to feel they can. All this on here is very valuable in giving one contact with those who can empathise and support but it is obviously limited. I guess as artists we naturally resist the idea of fitting into a system and so we should, in fact I think we don't question it enough. Doing anything that goes against the system or that is outside its boundaries feels impossible since we are all so on our own, so committed to our own success, so crippled by the desire to be admired and accepted. Even those that appear to be independent and to have rejected it are just another part that strengthens it...I'm not sure there is a better alternative though? What do you recon?

posted on 2009-05-23 by Christina Bryant

hi christina. i’ve attempted to catch up with ma application/intellectualisation/ etc etc this morning. wow. there’s so much discussion going on at the moment on this site. i’ve not put myself in a position of potential rejection for sometime, so i’m struggling with empathy towards not getting the funding for the ma. i expect there to be disappointment. does the lack of funding undermine one’s practice? do you continue to make work anyway? what is it that an ma offers that on the outside is unavailable? the last question i’ll reply to from where i sit in the sun. from the little bit of research into an ma in creative practice, the very unambiguous nature of a creative practice ma is to get forceful opinion delivered about the work being made as a practioner and paying for the privelidge. i’m not in anyway a business man, however the thought of paying to be critically ripped open doesn’t make sense. then my thoughts vere. what’s wrong with the critical world outside of an ma? is it that it’s not critical enough? ie, practionioners sit around being oh so polite and avoid confrontational discussion, which lets face it is the best way to critically discuss something. so my thoughts continue. if there was meaningful critical discourse available outside of an ma, would we all need to do an ma?

posted on 2009-05-23 by andrew martyn sugars

Whatever our individual thoughts, I think you have to go with the old saying that always seems right with me, go with your gut instinct. The important thing is you have made a choice, so good luck with it.

posted on 2009-05-22 by Anthony Boswell

Thanks Emily, it has been in my mind to contact you and ask you just the questions that you have answered for me. What impact did it have on your practice and did you feel it took you forward? So it was a positive step for you. Yes, I really feel it would be for me too. I think now that the initial let down is sinking in I am starting to realise that the bigger picture is, if I can find any way possible, I will do it.

posted on 2009-05-22 by Christina Bryant

Ah, rubbish. I didn't get funding either, although I then deferred for a year (mainly because my dad wasn't well) and had a good think. Basically I ended up rethinking options, applying for lots of other things thinking I would just be an artist with a BA (nowt wrong with that). But then i decided that I WOULD go - I really wanted to go to Wimbledon and do drawing. So I worked like a crazy person for three months in a shit admin job, did the residency for four (at Hospitalfield - an incredible honing and broadening experience all in one), and then worked like a crazy again until going to London to start the MA. I also found a little bit of funding from the Gomperts Trust towards the MA, which helped with funding. Honestly, this was the best thing I ever did. It was a very intense and difficult year and I worked alongside it, which I felt impinged a little on my progress, but overall it changed everything about what I do and I would do it again (please don't mkae me though!!). I know how awful you must feel, but whatever you decide, there are ways! Part-time may be an option so you can support yourself with a part time job, or working now at whatever and living on beans, or looking for other funding in the meantime. Of course, you may not go ahead with the MA, in which case perhaps something like a residency may give you a chance to really concentrate on your practice for a while. Either way, good luck and chin up!

posted on 2009-05-22 by Emily Speed

I understand the idea of the MA, it was a source of pulling everything together for me to, a way of finding new ways of approaching what was hidden, a thing I felt was required to make me feel complete, if you know what I mean? I sought of feel now that it still has a pull on me to do it, but I have chances that have lead me into a new direction that is working. Keep hoping because there will be something that will get you moving again, but I do understand the frustration of finding it. Whether you are on the course or not, all the answers are in your work which in turn is within yourself, thats how I see it and yes, we do 'need' all the time which I guess could be read as selfish. I find that all this struggle gets a little bit more into the work, but it is tough on the spirit and on that I am with you one hundred percent. Why do we choose to work on what seems sometimes to be such a lonely island?

posted on 2009-05-21 by Anthony Boswell

Thank heavens for sensible advice and a bit of perspective on the situation! I really appreciate these comments. Thank you. I know this is a dilemma most of us face (maybe not the MA thing but money and funding…I hate its power and authority over our lives). Also, living this way….with no money and a career that doesn’t earn cause others around me to suffer. I think that has been the hardest blow in not getting this funding… how reliant I will become on the generosity and understanding of those people close me. I do really believe in my practice and I know I won’t/can’t not do it. I think this is why I feel so adamant that I want to do an MA, this absolute desire to do the best for my practice and to push it forward. I am often anxious about being too comfortable, to cosy, in my approach. The MA has seemed the route I’ve had my eyes on to shake it all up. I’m hungry for learning, a challenge, to progress. But when there are more than just you, it’s a sacrifice that stretches wide. Being an artist feels so selfish at the moment. I think I need a good while to think it all over but yes other paths probably have as much, if not more to offer, they are just a little bit more hidden from me at the moment… maybe that’s the key … I need to use my imagination more to find them! Anyway, from today blogging is definitely my friend again – it does have some wonderful benefits…a sea of fellow artists, who understand. x

posted on 2009-05-21 by Christina Bryant

Hi Christina, I really empathise with the lack of money, working every hour (setting up a sexy chat line...) just to support your work. Half of my exhibitions drain so much of my own money in their preparation that I end up unable to pay the rent and sleeping on the floor of gallery with my few possessions in the back of the van. I stopped asking institutions for money after realising that you can spend so much time filling in forms and worrying about meeting criteria that you neglect the work that trying to fund. If this comment has a point it is to say; be serious with yourself, if you're not 100% behind what your art step back, themes no shame in it. But if you really do believe in what you're doing, really have the hunger and passion for it, keep going, there are more than one way to further your creative output and an MA, although a standard path, is not always the best way. Striving to find another path can lead you to things you might never have conceived of before. The MOST inspiring, freethinking (and often successful!) artists and designers I know didn’t even finish a BA, let alone start an MA. If you find a way to go down the MA route, good luck. If you don't, the other paths can be even more exciting. Best wishes, Jake Spicer

posted on 2009-05-21 by Jake Spicer

Christina, I think Anthony is right. You dont need an MA. May be the teaching approaches have not changed in 20 years and the model they are using to train artists is out of date. Better use your drive and enthusiasm in more suited areas.

posted on 2009-05-21 by Rob Turner

Hi Christina. Sorry about your dilemma. I too was turned down for an MA for reasons I don't understand. The thing is, I cannot afford it either right now, £3000! However, it also left me thinking about whether I really need to do it, whether I can follow my own lines of enquiry without the time and expense. Hope you work it out.

posted on 2009-05-21 by Anthony Boswell