ARTISTS TALKING

Yes, that was another point I wished to make: as long as there are legions of people willing to work for free, institutions have no reason to stop allowing them to. It's a big business advanced-capitalist ethos, the backbone of privatised society: protect your profits / the dividends reaped by those at the top at any cost. And as long as there is cannon fodder, this exploitation (because that's what it is) will continue to flourish. OK, I'm off to make some Political Art now. (Alternatively, a cup of tea.) (NB: as somebody else mentioned, of course there are circumstances in which voluntary work can be used - smaller, grassroots, artist-led institutions. But Liverpool's big, slick arts organisations are about as far from grassroots as you'll get, whatever they might like to think.)

posted on 2009-06-29 by Jo Moore

RE Andrew - I think I have said I liked the sound of your Tate internship before on this blog..somewhere.. and obviously it was a great experience for you. I do not mean, with these comments, to encompass all internships or voluntary opportunities or to deny the existence of valuable experiences (indeed, I have had some!). In fact that post was really just based on things I have seen in Liverpool. I suppose the 'soon after uni' was irrelevant; what I wanted to get across was my concern at the use of volunteers as unpaid labour in what is not necessarily skilled or specialist work (i.e. not of great value) and also, as you put it, serial volunteering. I think that institutions have a responsibility to limit the duration of internships and voluntary experiences to make them realistic for as many people as possible. The Tate internship strikes me as something that would probably lead (directly?) to paid opportunities, in which case volunteering here does not seem to represent the majority of unpaid opportunities in the arts around the UK. I wish there were more like this. This subject pops up regularly for me as in Liverpool, a city that has received good amounts of funding for Capital of Culture et al, it is incredibly hard to find paid work in the arts (however badly) and people seem to be getting stuck in this voluntary sphere. Also, as long as there are willing volunteers, the question of hiring paid staff seems unlikely to occur.

posted on 2009-06-29 by Emily Speed

Unpaid internships are illegal. They contravene both the letter and the spirit of National Minimum Wage legislation. That is the bottom line, regardless of whether we're talking about an arts internship or a law internship. HMRC really needs to tighten up on this, as I suspect we'll see a lot more of the old "(Unpaid)" on Arts Jobs before the recession's out. And, unfortunately, as these internships are so common, they don't provide any sort of advantage; particularly given that the only experience one gains is experience of basic administration / invigilation while Important People do Important Work around you. And they have the cheek to ask for experienced candidates! Sadly, Westminster also relies heavily on unpaid interns, so I can't see the government wishing to get involved. It makes me slightly ill to imagine how much, say, the execs at Liverpool Biennial are paid (with significant contributions from the public purse), and then to recall how heavily the Biennial relies on unpaid workers. It's deeply unethical.

posted on 2009-06-29 by Jo Moore

RE: "one of my main concerns is why graduates of two or three years are still doing it" I graduated in 1996 and didn't start my internship at Tate till 2008; internships can be a useful way to help people 'later in life' to change direction (previously to working as an editor I had been a teacher). However, serial internships are perhaps a little dubious...?

posted on 2009-06-29 by Andrew Bryant

Yes there are other rewards than money but who's going to pay the bills? I am artist in residence at a university for which I do not get paid but I get to use all the equipment and have studio space in which to do my own work. I have found it useful but at a time when they are sacking half their academic staff it doesn't really seem right to rely on unpaid workers to work with students.

posted on 2009-06-29 by Rosy James

In praise of internships: I did a three month, two-day-a-week internship at Tate which led to regular paid work as a freelance editor and got me involved as a paid facilitator/liaser in the Tate Oxleas project, which led to paid work at the British Association of Art Therapists. Even if I hadn't got paid work it would still have been worth doing for the contacts and the self/professional development. There are other rewards than money.

posted on 2009-06-29 by Andrew Bryant

This internship advertised on Axis at the moment is looking for an unpaid Intern for 2-3 days over 6-12 months and they would prefer candidates with experience in the arts/hanging shows etc... hmm, something wrong with that.. now what is it? http://www.axisweb.org/opOPPO.aspx?ENQID=37695

posted on 2009-06-29 by Emily Speed

Yes Amy, see my post below!! I have actually reached my overdraft limit now and NEED PAID WORK, no more volunteering. I am actually tempted to curate an exhibition at the Jobcentre about unemployment and have a large placard with "We're Not Getting Paid For This" on it....!!! he he! re: Janie, but what about Damien Hirst et al?? He seems to have got it right ;-) Yet of course he gets berated for actually making a substantial living out of his work!! So I'm not buying the old Van Gogh stereotype, not one bit!

posted on 2009-06-28 by Helen Dearnley

Wow! Strong feelings on this, which is great.. Interesting to hear about the environmental science angle and how that ties in with Susan's point about volunteering being standard in other industries - although industries that will eventually offer well paid employment! That also cleared up some questions I had about Arts Jobs and the amount of skilled volunteers being looked for in technical roles. As you've said Rob, some volunteering can be incredibly valuable; one of my main concerns is why graduates of two or three years are still doing it and why this is not being questioned. I did a Saturday every fortnight at Inverleith House in Edinburgh when I was at Uni (among others - this was by far the best), where I was let loose on spreadsheets, books, work and was asked my opinion on things, had some spontaneous mini-crits about my work and could have happily asked for a good reference if I had needed. I only stayed there for about two-three months, but that short time was well-rewarded. It probably would have been even better is I had been less shy! This was in a place with about three staff and a handful of volunteers, so everyone was used for the skills they could offer, rather than standing outside in the rain all day flyering (yep, done that too). More of this and more training and support. In the Biennial's defence I should say their volunteers often get to help hang work and meet the artist, as well as having talks and training about the pieces they are working with. Not all bad, just going on way too long and demanding too many hours.

posted on 2009-06-25 by Emily Speed

This is something that I have found very irritating lately so its fascinating to read everyones opinions on the matter. I find that some of the voluntary work available has little to offer in terms of experience - it just seems to be a CV filler. It is very hard to justify or find the motivation spending the time doing that when funds are running low. Anyone else find this?

posted on 2009-06-24 by Amy Ferguson

Following Janie's comment - when I mentioned Emily's May analysis of Art Jobs and the ascendancy of unpaid opportunities to a colleague working in the media/digital/production world he said it was v common for technical/admin and other posts to be offered unpaid as it was a known way for newcomers to get experience, tap into peer networks and join a profession where there are pay structures in place. So maybe it's fine if it's recognised as a career progression to something that is paid. Bit like new doctors having to work all hours in order to climb the ladder to being a consultant. Clearly that isn't the case in the visual arts.

posted on 2009-06-24 by Susan Jones

Emily I am not advocating volunteering or encouraging people to adopt it as a cheep alternative BUT........ These expences type oppotunities can be worth while. May be the experience and expansion of your portfolio makes it something you need to do. Sometimes the opportunity is an experiment, and with the right approach and personel, you get good results, it generates confidence and carves way for a well planned and profitable follow on job. How do you decide if these outcomes will happen, and is it worthwile investing time, and do you even have the resources to do it. These are difficult difficult decisions and the answer is over 90% NO. And I dont think you should entertain them unless it really is a door you have to open. I wish people were more discerning about what they volunteered for. The whole 'work experience' as a way of moving along a career path in the arts is pants.

posted on 2009-06-24 by Rob Turner

I think this is synonymous with a general poverty of approach to the Visual Arts compared to most other art forms. I think volunteering is fair enough in certain circumstances i.e. for artist run spaces etc but when it is used by established organizations I think it is pretty shameful. I think it is tied in with other issues such as why there is no direct correlation with the value of seeing art and a remuneration for artists. The myth of the artist working in the garret until his or her genius is discovered continues to underpin this fact. It would be interesting to compare other art forms such as opera, theatre and dance to see if the use of volunteers is as widespread as it is with in the visual arts. I presume it is more difficult to justify if there are box office takings in the equation.

posted on 2009-06-24 by Janie Nicoll

Hi Emily - and anyone else who's interested - I've just posted a fairly negative entry about selling work on my blog "After Rites", and would appreciate feedback, the more heated the better!

posted on 2009-06-24 by Jon Bowen

Hi Emily - 20 years ago I started considering training in environmental science/conservation, since I'm a great nature lover. It would have given me a steady income, and opportunities to paint in far-flung parts of the world. But to get into the field, you not only have to volunteer, you have to go on international eco-camps and PAY for your experience!! At least the arts establishment aren't taking the piss to that extent (yet).

posted on 2009-06-24 by Jon Bowen

no, you're not Emily! I did voluntary work during my degree, and a one off opportunity since graduating. It hasn't gained me any further opportunities, paid or otherwise, so the statement made by those wishing to exploit people isn't even true, otherwise I'd have a lucrative job in the arts by now. One year after graduating and that is yet to materialise, nor am I prepared to work for free any more - if they wanna know why, I will show them the bank charges that I keep getting for being so overdrawn........

posted on 2009-06-24 by Helen Dearnley

Thi is an important issue and an important post, which I'd like to see developed into a main article.

posted on 2009-07-05 by Gillian McIver

Interesting to hear an illustrators point of view - these things are not as black and white as they first appear... I'm dubious as to how visible individuals would be here though - there is bound to be hundreds of submissions surely?

posted on 2009-06-22 by Emily Speed

as an illustrator I agree with Gary Taxali (not only that, his work is pretty cool :-) ) Conversely, the AOI charge a hefty sum to upload your portfolio on their website, so therefore, if you're (like me) relatively not as prolific as Gary Taxali, then it could be good free advertising for your work :-)

posted on 2009-06-16 by Helen Dearnley

eep!

posted on 2009-06-29 by Jo Moore

Emily - would you be up for having a link to your Linz project on my blog so that it's easy for us to compare notes? By the way, I'm leaving the mortgage and kids to head off for seven weeks (they're 17yr twins, going feral for the duration - and for me, I wouldn't have it any other way. That's why I left it till now to go back to art school - I couldn't have done it when the mortgage was higher and the kids smaller. The escape of this project is a massive part of its attraction. I think there would be something very parochial about local-only artists and I'd say that's not a healthy direction...

posted on 2009-07-02 by Fiona Flynn